DevMeeting 2018-07-15

Submitted by aerbax on Tue, 07/17/2018 - 21:13


  • Monero v0.12.3 Command Line version has been released
  • Monero v0.12.3 GUI
    • Tagged for release and currently being built by Fluffy
    • This will have native Ledger support
    • User experience is the primary target after 0.12.3 is released
    • Work will also begin on native Android and iOS implementations
    • If anyone is interested in working on packaging, please contact dEBRUYNE
  • rbrunner is continuing work on the Monero Messaging System
    • endogenic notes that they're working on something similar for OpenMonero
  • Oneiric is working on Kovri's SSU(encrypted UDP packets)
  • endogenic has succeeded in transpiling the Monero source code into Javascript (using wasm).
  • vtnerd expects the initial/placeholder Lightwallet Server implementation to be pushed today
    • There will be many smaller code pushes as things progress
  • There may be another point release( or 0.12.4) to fix a random crash bug.
  • If you're interested in learning to develop for embedded hardware, please contact msvb-lab.Β  The hardware team has developed a badge that will debut at Defcon this year and is a good place to start learning.


Full Log

12:59 PM <rehrar> Agenda here:
1:00 PM <rehrar> Nothing outside the ordinary.
1:00 PM <rehrar> 1. Greetings
1:00 PM <rbrunner> Hi
1:00 PM <ErCiccione> Hello
1:00 PM <oneiric_> hi
1:00 PM <pigeons> hi
1:01 PM <rehrar> I know everyone is either celebrating or mourning France's victory, but we'll have to pull ourselves together somehow.
1:01 PM <rehrar> Hopefully some people can trickle in. :)
1:01 PM <rehrar> 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
1:01 PM ⇐ tactful quit ( Ping timeout: 244 seconds
1:02 PM <rehrar> Anyone have any updates on stuff they been working on?
1:02 PM <vtnerd> hello
1:02 PM <rbrunner> I made a "work in progress" PR for my Monero Messaging System (about 3/4 completed) so that people can see what I am up to:
1:03 PM <rbrunner> Feedback very welcome of course
1:03 PM <rbrunner> It's my first larger work in C++ after all ...
1:04 PM <endogenic> oof wallet holds messaging?
1:04 PM <endogenic> have heard some critiques of the concept itself
1:04 PM <endogenic> curious to see what happens
1:04 PM <rbrunner> Me too :)
1:04 PM <rbrunner> Worst case it will be neglected to death, but me learned tons of things
1:04 PM <endogenic> one thing i've noticed recently is kovri could be used for this sort of thing
1:04 PM <endogenic> man i bet you did
1:05 PM <endogenic> i was like 😳 when i saw the PR
1:05 PM <rbrunner> I can't read the emoji .. what is it ?
1:05 PM <rehrar> not all IRC clients show the emoticons. So I am clueless as to endogenic's expression
1:05 PM <rehrar> ^ :D
1:05 PM <endogenic> O_O
1:06 PM <rbrunner> So, in old boring english: Surprise?
1:06 PM <endogenic> fwiw rbrunner we have a similar concept
1:06 PM <endogenic> it will be proposed for the server
1:06 PM <endogenic> different application though
1:07 PM <endogenic> how about having a messaging controller for a wallet instance
1:07 PM <endogenic> then a wallet can decide to implement it or not
1:07 PM <endogenic> or any other way of extracting this code from wallet
1:07 PM β†’ floam412 joined (~floam412@unaffiliated/floam412)
1:07 PM <endogenic> for starters, the actual functional implementations
1:07 PM <endogenic> how's kovri going and what can we do for kovri
1:07 PM <rbrunner> I will happily discuss anything "architecure" with anybody willing
1:08 PM <endogenic> not sure why people don't talk about this
1:08 PM <oneiric_> Kovri is still making progress toward alpha release
1:08 PM <rbrunner> I thought about using Kovri, by the way, but either I am grossly mistaken what it is, or it is not suitable here
1:08 PM <vtnerd> endogenic is discussing this right now
1:08 PM <rehrar> oneiric_, you wanna give a quick update as best you know?
1:09 PM <endogenic> rbrunner: if your goal was to implement a specific design then you wouldn't be able to use kovri for that specific design
1:09 PM <oneiric_> rehrar: sure, a lot of progress is being made improving SSU (encrypted UDP) implementation
1:09 PM <rbrunner> Did you check the architecture description of the whole thing on the Taiga site? May be a good preparation for discussion
1:10 PM <endogenic> oneiric_: would you say there's anything that's been implemented for kovri so far that is not part of its "minimum viable functional subset", and is there anything missing from that 'mvfs' that must be in there before it can be integrated/consumed by an application?
1:11 PM <rbrunner> By the way, I am making noises, writing the Taiga site, making reddit posts, making videos, about "my" MMS, but still people manage to be surprised. Funny :)
1:11 PM <vtnerd> rbrunner : one thing endogenic is pointing out is that the functions need to be outside of simple wallet, so theres some hope of other wallets leveraging the code instead of making a defacto new standard that everyone has to reimplement
1:11 PM <endogenic> lol vtnerd it's for our kids to deal with i gues
1:11 PM <endogenic> collective our
1:12 PM <oneiric_> endogenic: I'm not sure of what all goes into the mvfs, but the focus has been to get the core necessary functionality working well before anything "extra" is implemented
1:12 PM <rbrunner> No, the code is "not in simplewallet". The code is in wallet2, of course. But any wallet using the MMS needs new commands for that
1:12 PM <rbrunner> That's why there is new code in simplewallet
1:12 PM <vtnerd> same thing
1:13 PM <rbrunner> What do you mean with "same thing"?
1:13 PM <vtnerd> I'd have to go through this, maybe it was abstracted well enough (just scanning the files), but wallet2 is really hard to use unless you want to handle your keys and do all of the scanning
1:14 PM <endogenic> wdym unless you handle keys and do all scanning?
1:14 PM <vtnerd> wallet2 is simplewallet. there is no distinction between them
1:14 PM <endogenic> seems hard to use unless you want to take on all its contracts
1:14 PM <endogenic> vtnerd: not exact;y
1:14 PM <endogenic> wallet2 and simplewallet functional domains are basically overlapping now
1:14 PM <vtnerd> it must be a trivial distinction ?
1:14 PM <endogenic> shouldn't be though
1:14 PM <endogenic> simplewallet is like the CLI
1:14 PM <vtnerd> well yeah, but the current state is that there is no distinction
1:15 PM <endogenic> well, there's no concrete criteria for distinction laid out yet in precedent i guess
1:15 PM <vtnerd> ah ok I will give it that then.
1:15 PM <endogenic> there can be though
1:15 PM <endogenic> i misspoke
1:15 PM <endogenic> there are some precedents ofc
1:15 PM <vtnerd> just as an example rbrunner - imagine trying to multiple non-sub addresses with that
1:16 PM <rbrunner> What use case would that be?
1:16 PM <endogenic> wallet2 isn't about use cases
1:17 PM <rehrar> Anyone else? :)
1:17 PM <endogenic> still talking rehrar
1:17 PM <rehrar> oh, I see. Apologies.
1:18 PM <rbrunner> With all due respect, as they use to say, I propose that you have a look at the code. You may see how much is in wallet2 for example, and check the message_store class.
1:18 PM <endogenic> rbrunner: basically people are bound to call it in unexpected conditions
1:18 PM <endogenic> cool thx
1:18 PM <rbrunner> And after that we will certainly have interesting discussions about architecture, uses cases, etc.
1:19 PM <endogenic> yeah this isn't exactly the venue :P
1:19 PM <rbrunner> You will also see that the code is quite small. Worst case: lessons learned, throw away, start anew better
1:20 PM <rbrunner> But you also know what can happen to projects that want to do *everything*, and *perfectly*. They never finish and go into production ...
1:20 PM <vtnerd> yes, much of the code appears to be in message store
1:20 PM <rbrunner> Most of it is not code, it's "structure", so to speak.
1:20 PM <endogenic> the thing is the implicit inclusion of the member var and dep
1:20 PM <endogenic> anyway we chat later
1:20 PM <rbrunner> Certainly :)
1:21 PM β€” rehrar timidly raises finger
1:21 PM <endogenic> rehrar
1:21 PM <rehrar> :D yay
1:21 PM <rbrunner> Devs get passionate if they see code :)
1:21 PM <rehrar> Alright anyone else with stuff that's been done?
1:21 PM <endogenic> vtnerd: has an update
1:21 PM <rehrar> great!
1:22 PM <endogenic> he's probably making coffee
1:22 PM <endogenic> anyway keep eyes peeled for update, pushing it soon
1:23 PM <endogenic> i have an update too. i've gotten monero src transpiling to JS
1:23 PM <rbrunner> What "Monero source"?
1:23 PM <endogenic> will push probably after a certain PR on emscripten gets merged
1:23 PM <endogenic> well including boost, so
1:24 PM <oneiric_> whoa! is that using asm.js endogenic?
1:24 PM <endogenic> wasm
1:24 PM ⇐ LSDog_ quit (~LSDog@unaffiliated/lsdog) Ping timeout: 248 seconds
1:25 PM <endogenic> so cold wallet generating html can get updated
1:25 PM <vtnerd> yes the light wallet server will be PRed today. the initial PR will be the placeholder as I work through smaller PRs so this doesn't get tewinget'ed
1:25 PM <endogenic> #tewinget'd
1:25 PM <endogenic> yeah we have to push this in stages
1:26 PM <rbrunner> I guess that about tewinget is an insider joke
1:26 PM <vtnerd> one of the biggies that needs to be considered is the yet-another serialization thing (unfornately). the goal is to replace/update the one that tewinget wrote for ZMQ and move from there
1:26 PM <endogenic> rbrunner: nah talkin about zmq being expansive
1:26 PM <endogenic> touched lots of things, hard to coordinate, etc
1:26 PM <rbrunner> Ok :)
1:27 PM <vtnerd> the message store that Im looking at it could make use of it - that way there is an official format for communication instead of "cryptonote special"
1:27 PM <endogenic> ^
1:27 PM <endogenic> vtnerd pls
1:27 PM <vtnerd> I didn't touch too much, its just that the update is pretty large because its an entirely new process
1:29 PM <vtnerd> Im not sure whether Im supposed to say something or give the floor ... ?
1:29 PM <endogenic> nah rehrar
1:29 PM <rehrar> no it's ok
1:29 PM <rehrar> thanks for the update!
1:29 PM <rehrar> alright, well if nobody else, then let's go ahead and move on
1:29 PM <vtnerd> oh I meant "vtnerd pls" .. ?
1:29 PM <rehrar> oh... :D Did you have more then?
1:29 PM <endogenic> no i mean pls grace us with that enhancement
1:29 PM <endogenic> have pity on us plebs
1:30 PM <endogenic> anyway rehrar :P
1:30 PM <rehrar> sure.
1:30 PM <vtnerd> yes it will be in its own PR with docs describing the whys, and the community can decide from there
1:30 PM <rehrar> I didn't expect to keep this on here, but 3. Point release items (GUI)
1:31 PM <rehrar> We have another point release for the CLI. I'm assuming the corresponding GUI one is being worked on or...?
1:31 PM <endogenic> oh i have one more question about kovri for later
1:31 PM <endogenic> rehrar when it's a good time
1:31 PM <rehrar> dsc_ Jaquee medusa_
1:31 PM <rehrar> sure, endogenic
1:32 PM <rehrar> if nobody is here to rep the GUI or core team, then we probably can't talk a whole lot about this point
1:32 PM <ErCiccione> rehrar: GUI 0.12.3 has been tagged alreadyΒ
1:32 PM <ErCiccione> it only needs to be built by the pony
1:32 PM <rehrar> Ok ErCiccione. And this is the one with native Ledger support?
1:32 PM <ErCiccione> yep
1:33 PM <rehrar> cool deal
1:33 PM β†’ tevador joined (c371196e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
1:33 PM <rehrar> alright, so if nothing else we can go to 4. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
1:33 PM <dEBRUYNE> I can provide a brief update on the GUI if you want
1:33 PM <rehrar> oh, please do
1:33 PM ⇐ nssy quit (~nssy@ Remote host closed the connection
1:33 PM <dEBRUYNE> So has been tagged and pony is in the process of building it
1:34 PM <dEBRUYNE> It's a minor release that predominantly includes some bug fixes + direct Ledger support
1:34 PM <dEBRUYNE> Thereafter, the GUI crew will work on revamping the settings page, introducing a white theme, revamping the wizard, and probably implementing a version of this proposal ->
1:35 PM <dEBRUYNE> Oh and bug fixes of course!
1:35 PM <dEBRUYNE> Note that not all aforementioned new features may make it into GUI v0.13
1:35 PM <dEBRUYNE> But eventually they should be implemented
1:35 PM <rehrar> Legit. Thanks for all the work that you guys do!
1:35 PM <dEBRUYNE> Also, we'll probably start working towards android and ios versions in the future
1:36 PM <dEBRUYNE> But I guess we have to find some devs who are interested in packaging etc.
1:36 PM <endogenic> lol "cryptogirlHODL: since good developers are notoriously bad at designing user-friendly interfaces" uhhhhh
1:37 PM <endogenic> i think simplewallet is pretty good :P
1:38 PM <rehrar> Thanks for the update dEBRUYNE. Trying to stop stepping on toes so I'll ask. Anything else?
1:38 PM <rehrar> from you, I mean.
1:38 PM ⇐ floam412 quit (~floam412@unaffiliated/floam412) Ping timeout: 276 seconds
1:39 PM <rehrar> The weaknesses of IRC. Is the person gone or typing? Blerg. Oh well.
1:39 PM <rehrar> We can pop back to 4. Code stuff
1:40 PM <dEBRUYNE> That's it. I guess if there's enthusiastic ios and/or android devs that are interested in working on the mobile release(s) of the GUI they can contact me here or on Reddit
1:40 PM <endogenic> rehrar: totally agree
1:40 PM <rehrar> case in point ^
1:41 PM <rehrar> I don't know if moneromooo is here or not, or if anyone has questions about anything right now.
1:41 PM <endogenic> dEBRUYNE: would be happy to lend my help if you need it - am sure you'll get replies
1:41 PM <+moneromooo> I am here, and I can answer questions.
1:41 PM <endogenic> this might be a good time for my question
1:41 PM <dEBRUYNE> endogenic: thanks!
1:41 PM <rehrar> sure, go for it endogenic
1:42 PM <endogenic> so oneiric_ moneromooo vtnerd what i'm wondering is, can we integrate kovri in its present state for many of the things we want ssl or other newly introduced systems of encryption to handle for us?
1:42 PM <endogenic> then gradually increase integration?
1:43 PM <+moneromooo> My understanding is that at some point, anonimal will add a simple API that looks roughly like the socket API, so we can plug it into the existing P2P code.
1:43 PM <+moneromooo> For RPC, not sure how that'll work, but possibly similarly.
1:44 PM <+moneromooo> That's been dormant for a good while though, so I don't know when that'll appear. anonimal recently said after defcon.
1:44 PM <endogenic> how about a subset of functionality ?
1:44 PM <+moneromooo> You'd have to ask anonimal for this, I don't know.
1:44 PM <endogenic> thx
1:44 PM <endogenic> saw that exchange btw
1:46 PM ⇐ TheoStorm quit ( Quit: Leaving
1:46 PM <rehrar> I'll give another minute for further discussion and then we can move on.
1:47 PM <rehrar> Ok. 5. Any additional meeting items
1:48 PM <rehrar> Alrighty then.
1:48 PM <rehrar> 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
1:48 PM <+moneromooo> Guess that's a good time to point to 4130, which is a (wrong) fix for a random crash.
1:48 PM <rehrar> every. time.
1:48 PM <rehrar> :D
1:48 PM <+moneromooo> So there might be another release, maybe, at some point.
1:48 PM <+moneromooo> Just so people know ^_^
1:48 PM <rbrunner> There always is :)
1:49 PM <rbrunner> We won't run out of releases soon, right? :)
1:49 PM <+moneromooo> Also it'd be nice once I have a better fix, if people can apply it on monerod and run it for a while ^_^
1:50 PM <oneiric_> moneromooo: are there conditions/test input we could throw at it to trigger the bug?
1:50 PM <+moneromooo> Not that I know of, it's a race.
1:51 PM <oneiric_> Ok, so just let it run for a bit?
1:51 PM <+moneromooo> Yes. Which is what I'm doing atm.
1:51 PM <msvb-lab> I have a additional meeting item, in case anyone is interested.
1:51 PM <+moneromooo> I'll say here when I have a fix reayd.
1:51 PM β€” +moneromooo done
1:52 PM <oneiric_> very cool, thanks :)
1:52 PM <endogenic> msvb-lab: pls
1:52 PM <msvb-lab> Our Monero hardware badges (which will debut in Defcon but appear in other conferences as well) run on a Atmel MCU and custom Monero firmware.
1:52 PM <msvb-lab> Whoever is interested in learning to develop on embedded hardware, this is a very good opportunity.
1:53 PM <endogenic> sweet
1:53 PM β€” +moneromooo might if monero wasn't taking so much time...
1:53 PM <msvb-lab> ...because badges are neither critical (are forgiving of security holes and errors) and they have very little program storage so the applications remain mini small.
1:53 PM <endogenic> moneromooo: get a disciple
1:53 PM <msvb-lab> Contact me if you want a one hour mentor assisted programming task that is much more than a hello world but only an hour long.
1:54 PM <msvb-lab> The sources are not online yet, but I'll provide you with hardware and all you need to get started.
1:54 PM <msvb-lab> That's all for my meeting contribution, thanks!
1:54 PM <endogenic> inb4skynet
1:54 PM <oneiric_> lol
1:54 PM <msvb-lab> endogenic: We're coding the firmware for skynet, yes.
1:54 PM <rehrar> Thanks msvb-lab
1:55 PM <endogenic> excellent. all is proceeding as planned
1:55 PM <rehrar> Alright. :) 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
1:55 PM <rehrar> 29th. July. 17 UTC.
1:55 PM <rehrar> Any objections?
1:56 PM <rehrar> If not, meeting adjourned. Thanks for coming in.